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Post by Istoria on May 6, 2018 18:53:16 GMT -5
Alright, once again we have some good discussion,only going a little off topic, but that's expected. First: BootlegsYes, it is very good practice for buyers to educate themselves about bootlegs. The Nominoichi recommends everyone should learn how to identify counterfeit merchandise. The point is, it's not our staff's job to look over your merchandise and help you identify bootlegs and suspicious items. That responsibility is with the seller. Please think of this as your warning. Know what your are selling. Second: VendorsShould a vendor want to spend more per selling hour on a smaller Nominoichi table while making less money on fewer sales, they can. It's not strictly against the rules for a vendor to go through this hassle. The point is, most are smart enough not to. About vendors buying nominoichi goods and then re-selling them in the vendors hall. I understand you are concerned about this, but I'm at a loss as to what steps we can take to solve this problem. What would you suggest that we do? Third: Arts and CraftPlease do not forget that all fan made goods that could be on a table in either the Comic Market or Crafters corner are not permitted at the Nominoichi. There are no exceptions for limited amounts. I think that's all for now. Should you have any more to say please let us know. And, as always, thanks for your interest in the Nominoichi. im curious about the second point. If a vendor buys things from the nomi to sell, is it against the rules of the con to re-sell it in the dealer's/vendor's hall. I mean if they did spend their own money to purchase something at a "garage-sale" like event such as nomi, don't they have the right to re-sell it as they see fit as they would now be the owner of said item? I agree with both of you in that there really is no measure to be taken when it comes to the second issue, and dealers/vendors have the right to sell whatever price they want to since it’s their property once they pay for it. The reason why I raised the issue in the first place was just me being on the skeptical side or trying to be fair too much lol. I hope this didn’t cause too much trouble for everyone, I had no intention of making it a big issue. When it comes to the third issue, however, I guess it’d be safe to say now that all sales of any kind of fanmade works/art are ‘formally’ forbidden from Nomi, no matter it being second-hand/used ‘unless’ they are freebies? At least that’s how I interpret Chris’s post (with the exception of ‘doujinshi’ or ‘doujin’ works from Japan?🤷🏻♀️)
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Post by libbyn on May 6, 2018 19:08:57 GMT -5
To quote Chris: "Please do not forget that all fan made goods that could be on a table in either the Comic Market or Crafters corner are not permitted at the Nominoichi". I think it's quite clear that any fanmade items purchased from artists selling at any other venue of Anime North are prohibited. That should really truly be the end of this particular debate I believe.
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Post by Djinnwolf on May 6, 2018 19:14:16 GMT -5
Tbh I think for the third issue there has to be better interpretation of what can or cannot be sold. As Istoria said if nominoichi forbids all fanmade products including but not limited to, fanart posters, doujinshi, buttons, accessories etc...items that can be found in crafter's corner or artist alley, then it should be noted this includes anything even if it was bought second hand, so directly from the artist themselves and now selling/give away for whatever reason. on the flip side this kinda contradicts what was being discussed in issue two. It wouldn't be fair if a vendor/store dealer bought items from nomi from a person to resell in the dealers room for profit, when most people who have these fan-made items at nominoichi tables bought them from the artists or representatives of the artists. Now that they may not be into the series or decluttering their collection they would rather see these items go to people who will enjoy them as much as they did. They are not trying to make a profit...actually most people on here that I have seen are selling these items for as little as .50 cents, when they may have paid $20+ for a fan made poster or a pair of buttons. I would also like to note that nominoichi is the perfect atmosphere for these items. I wouldn't see anyone wasting time checking selling ads like craigslist and kijiji for fanmade posters by sakimichan or buttons from a niche artist they bought at AN. These are not items for those kinds of selling avenues. It would be equally disheartening for people to have to throw away these items or give them away when these is a large fan-market right at AN Well that is my two cents!!! Just thought I add.
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Post by libbyn on May 6, 2018 19:42:36 GMT -5
I think there is a bit of difference in banning ALL fanmade items and only banning fanmade items sold by artists at Anime North. For example, let's say I'm browsing the Nomi before I go to the Comic Market. I see a button I like and I buy it. Then I go the Comic Market and I see an artist selling the same button. I already have that button, so obviously I won't buy it again. This means that an artist selling at Anime North, an easily accessible venue for me, has lost me as their customer. I think that has an immediate effect on the artist that most certainly needs to be considered.
However, it's a different matter when the item is something bought from an artist working in the Philippines for example. I buy it, I pay a ton of shipping costs to get it, I enjoy it for a while, then I'm done with it. I have 2 options: I store it away in my basement/recycle it OR I give it away to another fan who will enjoy it. There is a lack of immediacy that makes it less problematic I think, in the same way people consider it okay to resell Doujinshis from artists working in Japan. We know a lot of these goods cost a ton of shipping fees that not everyone is able to pay. The key point is to be able to share and enjoy the experience of being fan while still being considerate of independent manufacturers. It is important to make distinctions about accessibility and artistic rights when having these conversations.
And yes, as the comment above states, it is NOT fair for vendors to buy stuff from Nomi sellers, mark them up, and resell them to fans (who have limited budgets and shouldn't have to pay extra), and should not be dismissed out of hand, but policing that is harder, and I honestly don't know what can be done about it if it's happening at all. I hope I've managed to make some sense.
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Post by Djinnwolf on May 6, 2018 20:02:55 GMT -5
I think there is a bit of difference in banning ALL fanmade items and only banning fanmade items sold by artists at Anime North. For example, let's say I'm browsing the Nomi before I go to the Comic Market. I see a button I like and I buy it. Then I go the Comic Market and I see an artist selling the same button. I already have that button, so obviously I won't buy it again. This means that an artist selling at Anime North, an easily accessible venue for me, has lost me as their customer. I think that has an immediate effect on the artist that most certainly needs to be considered. However, it's a different matter when the item is something bought from an artist working in the Philippines for example. I buy it, I pay a ton of shipping costs to get it, I enjoy it for a while, then I'm done with it. I have 2 options: I store it away in my basement/recycle it OR I give it away to another fan who will enjoy it. There is a lack of immediacy that makes it less problematic I think, in the same way people consider it okay to resell Doujinshis from artists working in Japan. We know a lot of these goods cost a ton of shipping fees that not everyone is able to pay. The key point is to be able to share and enjoy the experience of being fan while still being considerate of independent manufacturers. It is important to make distinctions about accessibility and artistic rights when having these conversations. And yes, as the comment above states, it is NOT fair for vendors to buy stuff from Nomi sellers, mark them up, and resell them to fans (who have limited budgets and shouldn't have to pay extra), and should not be dismissed out of hand, but policing that is harder, and I honestly don't know what can be done about it if it's happening at all. I hope I've managed to make some sense. You are right. But I would like to point out someone selling one button or one poster at their table doesn't ruin the profit from someone in Comic market or artist Alley. As Chris said in a previous post, Artists and Makers pay good money to be in these sections the entire weekend. Even if one person manages to find an item bought years ago in the AA/CC, it wouldn't cut necessarily cut into an artist's profit, especially if those artist/crafters have access to 20,000+ people all weekend. Also note sometimes these items are discontinued by the artist or maker so finding them second hand at the nominoichi is the only way to get you hands on them (kinda like rare figures or dvds). I have a bunch of buttons and posters I would love to get from artist, unfortunately they do not make these anymore so nominoichi or something similar would be the only market to get these (unless reprinted). If you do happen to find an item(s) both at nomi and in the CC/AA well now you know the person who made it and can personally thank them for their work...even see what else they have or have a commission done. A few nomi sellers may not remember the person who they bought the fan art from (signaturs may not be distiguishable) so if you manage to recognize the work, now you can follow that artist or buy some more stuff from them. As for you reference about international artists, honestly I do not think it can go both ways. whether they are local or international if Fan made items are prohibited it should be left at that with no exceptions to where they live in the world. It would be unfair for me if I am from toronto to not have my items sold second hand or not but someone can sell fan made items from the USA or Japan simply because of the expense of shipping or where they live to get them here. I get it, shipping can be a headache for anything abroad or the best doujinhi may come from japan idk, but as a fan you'll eat the cost to have the item. it shouldn't play a factor when deciding what is allowed at nomi and what is not.
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Post by xiyuue on May 6, 2018 20:13:59 GMT -5
Adding to the debate:
Like djinnwolf said I put some a few 2nd hand prints on sale in my thread. I bought them all several years ago (at least 4+ years ago) and I love them so much. They're all absolutely stunning and some of them have never even been displayed, having only sat in my closet for all these years. Alas due to living circumstances I can't put up posters on my walls anymore, and honestly I just would really hate to see some of these go to waste. I'm selling some of them for like $1 just because I want them to go to a better home, and I feel it's not even worth bringing it to Nomi (takes up valuable space in my luggage) if I'm not making a tiny bit off of it. Anything I don't sell this year will likely end up in the recyclin bin, which is something I really don't want!
I won't be displaying them at my table and only bringing what's been reserved, so I don't feel like I'm advertising and taking away customers who would also be visiting the artist alley.
I also am giving away all my old buttons for free at my table, which again you can make the argument of "well this devalues the artists' work" but in my defence I just don't want to be wasteful. It makes me sad to see perfectly good stuff go into the trash, but unfortuantely I have way too much things and storing them is becoming impractical, so like everyone else I just want to offload my hoard. Some of these buttons are so beautiful that I feel like it's a waste to throw away, which is honestly half the reason I sell at nomi at all -- because I'd rather my old stuff go to good homes, even at a highly discounted price.
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Post by libbyn on May 6, 2018 20:17:46 GMT -5
Djinnwolf I understand and respect your response, but to me there is a distinction between local artists (easy accessibility/higher probability of sale) to artists outside of my local sphere (limited/no accessibility). At the end of the day, it's our own moral concerns that guide our actions. That's all there is to it. The underlying point being, as you said, that the Nomi is a place to unload our unwanted items (for a price or for free) and make sure they go to people who want them/will appreciate them. That is the essence of the experience, and I hope we can all just enjoy it for what it is, as we have always done in the past.
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Post by Djinnwolf on May 6, 2018 20:25:53 GMT -5
Djinnwolf I understand and respect your response, but to me there is a distinction between local artists (easy accessibility/higher probability of sale) to artists outside of my local sphere (limited/no accessibility). At the end of the day, it's our own moral concerns that guide our actions. That's all there is to it. The underlying point being, as you said, that the Nomi is a place to unload our unwanted items (for a price or for free) and make sure they go to people who want them/will appreciate them. That is the essence of the experience, and I hope we can all just enjoy it for what it is, as we have always done in the past. for sure!!! That is what AN is all about
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Post by azu on May 7, 2018 11:06:19 GMT -5
Now I may be getting a little technical here, but what about fan-made items sold in the dealers room? I'm sure there are some vendors that have these types of items (I've seen posters, pins, accessories, etc). So what I'm saying is, the seller's items could not be sold in the crafts corner/artist gallery because they're actually considered a business then. Are those allowed? Does that make sense? :S
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Post by xiyuue on May 7, 2018 11:26:01 GMT -5
Now I may be getting a little technical here, but what about fan-made items sold in the dealers room? I'm sure there are some vendors that have these types of items (I've seen posters, pins, accessories, etc). So what I'm saying is, the seller's items could not be sold in the crafts corner/artist gallery because they're actually considered a business then. Are those allowed? Does that make sense? :S My interpretation of it is anything that COULD be sold on a comic market/crafter's corner table (not FROM a CM/CC table). I guess this is to prevent artists from cheating the system and selling their own fanmade things at nomi, especially if they couldn't secure a table in the right section, and selling at nominoichi instead. As an addendum: second hand fan-made goods can't really be sold on a CM/CC table anyways.
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excelsells
New Member
Anime North attendee since 2002!
Posts: 14
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Post by excelsells on May 7, 2018 23:45:34 GMT -5
There's no way to stop people from reselling like that, unfortunately, beyond hoping they have a guilty conscience that dissuades them from cheating people like that. But ultimately the profit for them will be a negligible ten or twenty bucks anyway, at best.
Also as I said before, we can't really give people a hard time for selling pins and prints sometimes. If it's just one thing on a table full of normal saleable products it shouldn't really be a problem.
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